Buhari ought to show contrast in the middle of APC and PDP

October 17, 2015 Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Google+ NEWS and Gossip



Cardinal Okogie

Fiery catholic priest complains of loneliness

For more than four decades, he held the country enchanted with his activ­ism and instruction. Appointed first as a cleric on December 11, 1966, blessed as a main Bishop in August 1971, Archbishop in 1973 and a Cardinal in October 2003, Anthony Olubunmi Okogie turned into the voice for the voiceless and for a considerable length of time exploited his initiative of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) and additionally Bishops’ Conference of Nigeria to talk against the ills in government and even challenged the military administrations of Gener­als Ibrahim Babangida and Sani Abacha that numerous pioneers feared to cross their way then.

Without mincing words, his exercises and episcopal status pulled in to him the self important in the general public. His home and office were similar to a journey site attacked by all shades of Nigerians; from the modest church individuals, family relations to business big shots and heads of governments over all levels.

At 79 and resigned since May 2012, Okogie has all the earmarks of being confronting the opposite side of popularity; forlornness. Surely, he affirmed this in this with Saturday Sun. In any case, past this, the pastor stays as blazing and basic as ever. To him, occasions of the most recent four months in Nigeria have demonstrated that there is no distinction between the organization of previous President Goodluck Jonathan and occupant President Muham­madu Buhari. He talked with VERA WIS­DOM-BASSEY. Passages:

At 55, what are those things you think the administration ought to put set up for us to be a decent and prosper­ous country?

At whatever time I take a gander at Nigeria, I have a craving for weep­ing, you are soliciting me from celebrating at 80, am fulfilled the way God has kept me, the way am going, individuals don’t accept am still solid. In the country, we must be cautious simply like intersection the street. You look left, right and look again before you move, else you will be smashed. That has been my guideline, what is cash all things considered, what do you pick up from it, ladies what do you get from it. Ladies, what do they get from the men? When you take a gander at somebody and you begin to look all starry eyed at the individual and the following minute you said you don’t care for her once more. She is not a fabric, it’s not a material that you can say this is old. No, she is a hu­man being similar to you, why wouldn’t you be able to utilize your head before going into it. A man strolled into my office one day and was talking that his wife is old, and I said you too you’re old. The way the lady is today is not the way you met her numerous years prior, so is there any good reason why you won’t need her. In this way, when you take a gander at Nigeria at 55 and the individuals who are sufficiently long in this world, as Nigeria seems to be, you will feel frustrated about the coun­try. So likewise there was a period Ghanaians were notwithstanding snickering at us, when things were going admirably, they were all in Nigeria even the times of Nkrumah, so it’s childishness and the underlying driver of that is cash, and voracity, in light of the fact that when you have cash and other people who have it and they are squandering it, you who have it, they need to kill you, and annihilate you. These are samples. Our radiant father is there and remaining with arms akimbo watching us as Nigerians, saying take a gander at my kids the way they are executing themselves. Everybody needs to make it, the great Lord that brought me out of my mom’s womb as little as I was then, the same individual will deal with me. Along these lines, as folks, we are to raise our kids the right approach to go and demonstrat to them the way, yet they won’t. Thus, numerous things are currently remaining in transit, favourit­ism, individuals campaigning to wind up the companion of various things. For example, take a gander at the ministe­rial chosen people.

I was ending up like that, how would you see the ecclesiastical rundown, particularly af­ter the long hold up?

When I was listening to the occupant’s telecast president amid his swearing–in, I beat my mid-section, can this man say, those things were composed by him? I ask myself is this the Buhari I knew 2011, that composed this? Despite the fact that it was composed for him, would he be able to not take a seat and read and re-read once more, and ask him­self, on the off chance that he can take after each one of those things recorded. Taking a gander at the announcement he made ‘I have a place with everyone except no one’. Take a gander at the rundown of pastors, he fits in with no one, I snickered. It implies he had a place with APC.

What’s more, with the rundown, they are currently attempting to pay back the individuals who were their pack bearers, that is what am seeing, that is not Nigeria which we battled for, it’s difficult. Along these lines, what is com­ing ahead if consideration is not taken and this product of individuals on the off chance that they don’t work as an inseparable unit, we are going to have an awful future, in light of the fact that the young people now, they are simply holding up, they are currently say­ing that the elderly ones in this nation, can’t be believed, they are searching for their time and when that time comes, they won’t convey arms, they will do it in a manner that you won’t even realize that they are the one.

The general population who have served in distinctive ca­pacities ought to have given space for the young­er ones to go in and serve. OBJ used to say I take a seat dey look (snicker), I don’t recognize what he needs to say to this, yet I know he has a section in it. I said it uproarious and clear, why this one say I brought my rundown, am listening to this from the basic individuals. I know when they descend they say all kind of things, what number of rundown do you need, what number of distinctive individuals brought their rundown? But then you said, you be­long to no one, by what means would you be able to not be confounded, when you said you’re sitting tight for a heavenly attendant, to come and manage the country, I giggled. Out of the inexhaustible of the heart, the mouth speaketh. On the off chance that I were in his shoes, (Buhari) I let you know, this is his last time. He attempted it thrice and now that the great Lord brought him back, wouldn’t he be able to utilize this chance to improve?

One thing am seeing again from what is go­ing on, there is asperity, amid the crusade they were simply assaulting each other, that hap­pened then. Individuals who said they have gone to auxiliary school, not to talk of college are carrying on along these lines, is it how to keep the country together? Where is the patriotism in that rundown? By what method would you be able to let me know that these individuals are go­ing to work?

How would you see their trustworthiness?

I am not God, but rather from their past per­formances, am perplexed. When you see the states the way they worked then, not to talk of now they are putting on a greater scale that they are going to well, it doesn’t take after, Nigeria is a major country. Taking a gander at this from the otherworldly edge, there are a great deal of killings on-going, and it’s turning out to be more than what we could bite.

As a minister of God and elder statesman, what is your recommendation to the president with respect to uprising. Has he done his best in this way?

No, no, it’s not the best, I realize that he’s going to win, on the grounds that I as of now see the signs, he will win, at any rate that was one of the rea­sons why, those that chose him, did as such. The pioneers and the gathering individuals did as such, I don’t have the foggiest idea, in light of the fact that the killings are getting an excessive amount of and not just that outsiders and remote countries were coming yet at some point or another, it will reach an end. What the Boko Haram peo­ple are doing is that they are decreasing quick, however what they are doing is sending the little number they need to go to touchy spots to toss their bomb to show they are still alive yet soon, by the finesse of God they will be fought.

That implies you offer praise to Bu­hari’s organization for at any rate accomplishing something?

That is one of the things I think, things are progressing pretty well, as should be obvious.

Also, you’re idealistic about the December deadline?

I don’t take a gander at due date, he’s not God, I realized that at some point or another, with the way they are going about it, they will win. There must be causalities here and there, however indications of triumph are there, more than some time recently.

Taking a gander at the tussle going ahead in the National Assembly, what might you say in regards to the present’s believability authority, what is your take?

They are unpatriotic, that is the real thing, they are pretty much celebrating (that is gathering individuals) they don’t take a gander at this country by any means, they appear to be not to realize that without Nigeria, they won’t host a get-together. That is the trou­ble. Am of this one, this one brought me into the gathering and I must serve this individual. Putting fault on others, it is uncalled for. Decision has come and gone, it is presently time for them to seat down as a body and take a gander at Nigeria and after that work, however they are not doing it. Different things will come in, we ought to attempt and be perusing the final page of The Guardian and hear the young talking. What are the more established ones searching for there in the administration seat in any case?

At the point when OBJ was searching for third term, sor­ry I need to specify him, what did he overlook that he’s going there to take, and after that, they (old pioneers) are returning, what are they searching for? This beats my creative ability, he himself (Buhari) has been there thrice and fizzled, and now that God has brought him back, APC has brought him back and take a gander at what is going on. They have attempted PDP and now chose to attempt APC and recognize what they can do.

It is safe to say that you are frustrated?

Yes, am frustrated in both sides, not simply APC alone. When you take a gander at what is going on, what is occurring is only the chunk of ice’s tip. They have not began work by any stretch of the imagination. Take a gander at the way they chose their individuals, there are a few individuals who put on APC fabric, they are two-timer, they are PDP down, down their psyche and they turned out as APC. That is the reason they are currently having the Saraki and there are so a significant number of them still there, are we having an Assembly and sena­tors as group of burglars or pack of rapscallions. Is it what we are having now? On the off chance that somebody is to do that to their family, would they be cheerful, not to talk of a major country like Nigeria. Buhari is going to have an intense time with this arrangement of individuals, am letting you know, am not a prophet. The round of Saraki, I place it in the center. In the event that these individuals start to work, we will see and hear ponders. I trust they won’t drag us down to the earth.

Would you need to prescribe ways we can accomplish some collaboration, so that this organization won’t fall flat between the official and the administrative arms of government?

The main cooperative energy we can have, is for both to consent to cooperate. On the off chance that they don’t cooperate, the solidarity is in question. They ought not consider themselves to be a PDP man or APC man, that is the thing that they are doing now, unless they consent to cooperate, in the event that they act as a gathering individual there will be issue. Genuineness, they say is the best approach, we require fair men that can lead this nation and take us to the prom­ise land. Am not censuring every one of them, No. Presently the discussion of petroleum, the president is discussing taking care of the division himself, there is nothing terrible there, afterall OBJ attempted it, warrior to fighter, it’s in their blood.

Is that not the reason he can’t believe anyone to oversee it, seeing what happened to the previous petroleum priest?

What I will say to that is this, it is, severe to see someone we have been perusing about conveying such measure of cash being washed, that is sufficient to execute one. For me, I don’t simply take a seat at home, I likewise relate with the general population in my surroundings when I need to trim my hair, I go to the hairdressers shop, be­cause I need to perceive how individuals live and profit, and feel what they experience and what they discuss the country, so I don’t simply take a seat at home constantly. From general society you get reality about the country’s condition. I learnt such a great amount from my dad, I could have been moved in the opposite direction of the war front, however God rejected it. The way things are going is bad for us as a country. It’s not right the way things are going, and they are parading themselves as clergyman, with some platitude, this is my third term in office, even the individuals who have been there before this régime. What’s more, some mak­ing remarks of what they will have in their service and what they won’t have in their service. Is it accurate to say that they are God or head of State? That is what is occurring now. Individuals are now testing him of needing to be the priest of petroleum, eventhough the constitution is there to be taken after.

What are those things in our framework, that make people with significant influence to be cor­rupt. Is there anything about the sys­tem that advances debasement?

Sorry madam to stop you, the sacred text is there, affection for cash, when one is in influence and you are accountable for cash, silliness is number one, you need to support individuals, dependably attempt to hotshot, of what they have or wear, and any­thing you have, you need to discard it, and on the off chance that you don’t get it, you’re not cheerful. Tribalism is another. What’s more, the cash you haven’t gotten, you start to spend. Another is gathering framework, we are in the same party, they host not assisted our with getting together individuals, deceitfulness, the fallen angel is, awful, and capable, he knows our feeble focuses, that is the reason we need to guide ourselves, this tissue we have is the place the vast majority of our issues lies, we have the soul and we have the body. We have the great soul and the awful. As St Paul let us know, the great soul will talk in low tone, and the terrible one will be high. For to what extent, that is the reason I said fear this present gathering of clergymen, they per­formed well in their different states. OK, this is the reason some of them are being selected, be­cause this one has been with me, he has worked with me, listens to me and now we must convey him to come and work with you. This is the one I know, whether he can do it or not, and if the individual baffles you, you said I never knew he is similar to this. He needs to shroud himself, in order to get to the position he is asking for. Some of them named are stating, don’t stress we are wait­ing for them, until we arrive, that has been the remark I have been listening to and some of them say yes, this open door, we have been sitting tight for, and we must make it. These are individuals who will govern Nigeria and are stating they need to help Buhari, they simply take a seat some place and are talking of how they will make it when they get the opportunity to control.

Is it not on the grounds that this gov­ernment profits avail­able for administration?

That is one thing I said, eliminating others is not beneficial, rath­er take a gander at different countries they are the wealthiest. Take a gander at what different countries are getting; contrast it with what we have in Nigeria. Take a gander at some of our graduates who need to work in­stead no occupation, they rather go into rob­bery, and on this, they attempt to get away, this are instances of individuals who need to make it definitely.

At the point when Okonjo Iweala was additionally critized, she was fulfilled by what she was doing in the World Bank before OBJ went to convey her down to Nigeria. What’s more, as they said there is debasement in the nation and if not took care of well, it will pulverize the na­tion. To brace your inquiry, did they not burglarize it on her, that she is cor­rupt? What’s more, as the great Lord will have it she is presently raised to another po­sition. Release them and bring her, she will never return again. She has learnt her lesson. Along these lines, this is it.

Sir, how is life after retire­ment?

Take a gander at it now, I won’t say am en­joying each snippet of it, in light of the fact that individuals continue coming in and making inquiries, needing my consideration here and there. Aside from that, I have more opportunity to think once more into my life which is more imperative to me. Each prior night I go to bed, I simply make inquiry, ‘Tony, how have you faired today?’ How could you have been able to you spend the day, these are the things, this is the means by which life is. You should dependably attempt to think back. I will come like a hoodlum in the night that is the thing that God says. One extremely rich person, who kicked the bucket as of late, where are all his cash, what did he do to his own particular country, Nigeria?

How was it like when you were in broad daylight office and now in retirement?

When I was in the workplace, I was in general society eye, and now and again it makes me feel a tiny bit pleased, now not then, in light of the fact that all over the place you go to, Oh Okogie, Okogie. I recall one day, my mom called me and said “the work that God has offered you to, do it well, don’t take after the individuals who will lead you adrift, abandon them gracious”, and I said see what am wearing, she yelled “no, that is not what we are taking a gander at.” Some peo­ple have composed a few books on me, they profit they want­ed to make. As I said before on, you can’t be excessively watchful in this world. However, now I have sufficient energy to investigate my life. Not consistently, but rather before I go to bed each day, I ensure I check where I have turned out badly.

Things being what they are, will you say you have been allowed to sit unbothered, then there were such a great amount of individuals around you, yet now is it that the companions are all gone?

You know my dear sister, that is the world when you are in your prime or you are doing exceptionally well. You have numerous companions, it is there in the sacred texts, even in the Kore­an. Achievement has numerous companions, yet when you are out, just the genuine few will be coming to you. Just earnest companions. It’s generally great to have them and converse with them, a few individuals need to come to copy you, yes. Ok, you are not there at such a spot, on the off chance that it was those days, you will be at the high table, so what is differ­ent from now. In this way, you can’t demonstrate hatred for me like that. Quietude is the establishment for a decent decision. I recollect when I was in office I never conducted myself high. In this way how I wish every one of these individuals we are discussing, will seat back, particularly, those of them who have tasted unmistakable quality some time recently, can kick back and say thanks to God for giving them another opportu­nity to serve. Also, beg God not to permit them to make a wreck of their lives this time, in light of the fact that this the truth will surface eventually something else, on the grounds that there will be numerous individuals talking, a great name is superior to anything wealth, your work will represent you, that is the thing that Jesus says. He’s there setting aside his time, there are such a variety of good individuals, youth, ladies which he can decided to work with him.

Rundown of clerical candidates have been flying around. Some even accompany their CVs to me to assist them with asking Buhari to choose them, yet I let them know am sad, I can’t vouch for anyone, if the open door comes, and in the event that it doesn’t come, so be it.

In case you’re to meet Mr. Pres­ident, what is one thing you think will make his residency effective and impactful on the Nigerian masses?

You need me to say that now to people in general, no, no.

On a general note now, what proposal would you like to provide for people with great influence, both authoritative and official arms of govern­ment?

What I need to let them know, is this; together we stand, partitioned we fall. In the event that they can’t cooperate, am perplexed. Disregard every superfluous acrimonie, am in PDP, APC, and you keep yourself a long way from one another. Give them a chance to take a gander at Nigeria as Nigeria that is the reason they are there. Give them a chance to be prepared to yield, administration needs sac­rifice, that is, administration needs give up yet no one needs to give up. Request that a little kid help you do some­thing in the road, he will interest for something.

It has turned into a standard?

Since they see the elderly ones do same thing. That is the reason am discussing the young. I fear them; our pioneers ought to put their God be­fore them. God first. Regardless of the fact that they don’t have confidence in God, they ought to have confidence in the country. At the point when OBJ was still there, and I let him know when I was president of CAN, that I think we need to change the vow, he said change it for what, for something else, in light of the fact that we are not consistent with it. He yelled, is that all? He said on the off chance that I don’t learn it that am done. Along these lines, I began parading around recounting the national song of praise. Take a gander at America and Nigeria, that is how we are going at this point. We need to take after those countries that have lost their God. Also, one thing am extremely content with is the way they got the Pope (Amer­ica). I couldn’t trust my eyes, and when he exited they were all running their mouth. Obama running his mouth, and requesting that the general population utilize their still, small voice, who dashed him inner voice, when Pope was talking while didn’t he answer. In this way, you see God first. Whether you’

What do you need them to seek after, particularly now, Ni­geria is 55, what next?

Individuals typically say, new floor brush compasses well, however this new sweeper I don’t know how they are going to clear, on the grounds that am not God. Just those of them who have the adoration for this country on a fundamental level will make it. Keep in mind as I let you know, each of us are in the country’s square, if one piece is gone and you don’t quality it instantly that turns into an issue. That is, whether you see a min­ister that is degenerate, and the paper is discussing it and you don’t make a move on time, it’s going to influence the rest. What Iam today is God, however in the event that you don’t take after that voice of heart, you won’t arrive. Be­cause the world is viewing. In this way, we must come back to the nuts and bolts, if Buhari needs to be a democrat, let him be a democrat. He hosts tried such a variety of gatherings before coming to APC and now that he has endured APC, they shouldn’t begin battling inside of APC, we are individuals.

Is the clerical rundown, pay back to the gathering, or those that have helped Buhari into force?

That is precisely what he has done, which isn’t right, in light of the fact that there are better heads in this Nigeria, what of Nigerians in different countries that are doing great. What isn’t right with them is just to speak to them and let them return home.

The general population you tended to, have they quite recently abandoned you, do despite everything they come around?

No, they come when they feel like. On open occasion, despite everything they come.

As it were, you are allowed to sit unbothered?

Am utilized to it, I went to the mon­astery a week ago, I was there for three days, more. Along these lines, this is the sort of life I need, presumably, I will end in the religious community, I don’t know why I’m stating it openly now, on the grounds that there is entirely peace there. On occasion the fallen angel will accompany his own specific manners. In this way, I adore the religious community, it is an extraordinary spot you go, the spot is peaceful. I don’t know how that place will be in five years’ chance in light of the fact that they are currently assembling home all over. At the point when Gowon went there, the entire spot was a shrubbery.

How might you depict Nigeria’s excursion as an in­dependent and popularity based country in this way?

When I was growing up, Nigeria was then battling for freedom, Herbert Macaulay, Nnamdi Azikiwe and others, these were the general population I might want to take a gander at and simply say to myself, Nigeria is an incredible country. The way things were, to such an extent that, individuals were not really anxious of Nigeria, due to the way things were going on. You talk of football, it was great then so much that in the event that you need to request things from abroad, you simply send a letter to them and they will send the item down to you. You will offer it and send the cash back, that trust was there for a country, similar to our own. At that point came inde­pendence, individuals like Tafawa Bale­wa, all were cheerful, jubilating, then came in Chief Awolowo, Enahoro and numerous others. At that point things came into our hands. Regularly, we commit our errors entirely good, however we are still a reasonable country.

Things were extremely wonderful, then bit by bit disintegrating, and afterward troopers came up, after the indepen­dence. We had Ojukwu, they attempted to keep the country together, however they said no, then there was a war. At that point Gowon went ahead board, an exceptionally young fellow, he did well to put the country to­gether and those things he did, truly inspired us, there was no victor, no vanquished. We appear to be not to un­derstand ourselves, if Ojukwu had not made the stride he took, I think we ought to have been exceptional than we are today. I was drafted into the armed force as a Chaplain, not as a minister. I was un­der Benjamin (might his spirit rest in peace) that was Adekunle, my obligation was to move with the administra­tors as an officer and I truly attempted my best then, so we attempted our best with Gowon to keep Nigeria together, and there was a motto that was made: “To keep Nigeria together”. It was instituted by Martins, he was there be­fore us, truth be told, he took me there, he drafted me there, and was responsi­ble for my going into the armed force, I was a youthful cleric in those days on the grounds that I was appointed in 1966 towards the last part of 1966, then towards the accompanying’s end year, I was in the war front, I even ran with Colo­nel Ali, however he’s dead, he was the head of staff then.

Where precisely did we miss the point?

All things considered, the sacred writing says, the affection for cash. Not cash itself but rather the adoration for cash is the base of all malice. I recollect when I returned home myself and Archbishop Joseph, he returned as National D.C.C, I asked him, Father Petrus, as the na­tional DCC all through the country, that is more than a Reverend and an elder, then I asked him, would I be able to be a minister, he took a gander at me and chuckled and answered by calling me by name, Tony, any blockhead can be a cleric, and pretty much as any nitwit can wed, so where do I stand? He further said Tony, you ought to have asked me the ques­tion, would I be able to be a decent cleric? What is going on, such a large number of individuals race into this, they think on the grounds that I can smoke thus they hurry into it, no that is not a decent life. To be a decent minister, he said, you must be watchful of three things in life, cash, ladies and beverage, he said they will come to you in a specific order. Along these lines, where we missed the point was the cash. On the off chance that you take a gander at a family that is not doing great, the base of everything is in cash. At the point when there is an issue including spouse or wife, when you take a gander at it criti­cally, it is in cash. Along these lines, those three things you simply need to fare thee well and handle them. I see that in Nige­ria, individuals stocking cash away, what is it for, when they don’t know when they will leave this world, and you are rebuffing individuals, you don’t even give it a second thought, so that is the place we failed to under.